SBURBDEV Forum

[Legendary]

These guys have so many special conditions it didn't make sense not to make our own thread for them. Let's see what they've got going for them, shall we?

1- A special kind of House
2- Pre-Entry Dreaming
3- Wardrobifiers
4- Lots of Prototyping potential
5- Always Prospit dreamers
6- Connections to First Guardians
7- The last player to enter in their chain (Yes, Kanaya was either #9 or #10 total, but she was the last Red Team member to join, keeping some consistency there)

So. Houses are simple enough to make and assign, dreamselves are easy enough to handle, and dreamself allocation is discussed elsewhere. That leaves us with 3, 4, 6, and 7. The wardrobifier is by far the most optional of all the Hero of Space roles. I am personally unsure if it's even needed or not. Some things just aren't necessary, you know?

Four is something interesting though. Kanaya and Jade both had lots of interests and Jade's guardian did as well. In fact John and Jade have theorized that they were deliberately left with a lot of stuff to work with to impress upon them the gravity of their decision. If we include this, I propose that most of the items be relatively useless in other contexts. Anything alchemized among them should probably produce cosmetic changes only. Again, anything else gives them a hell of a lot of an advantage.

Six is another question, and I think one that decides a little bit about this game. Should we have the First Guardian running around at all? Maybe these games are all the other games that happened in MSPAcanon and Bec just woke up all the potential Space dreamers and there's nothing to worry about here? Maybe this should be a big quest and every session has its own pre-generated, intelligent-ish First Guardian who does a few things here and there? I just don't know.

And finally, seven. This one is important, I think, because of Grist. A Hero of Space needs to get working on their Frog Quest quickly upon entry and giving them the lion's share of the starting Grist may be a good way to get this going. I'm not even sure if John had 10,000 Grist to work with for himself when Jade entered, let alone the 20,000 she canonically had. So yeah. We probably need a whole 'nother thread on starting grist, don't we? I am too tired for more threads. You guys should make some for discussion purposes I guess.

[immortius]

Sollux was definitely the last in the troll's overall chain.

Some of these happening are coincidences, others are because the kids' universe was created by the trolls and influenced by them. We can feel free to ignore some or all of these conditions.

[Legendary]

I uh, never actually denied that Sollux was the last one in. Note my statement there is only that Kanaya is the last member of the Red Team to join, and was thus probably either #9 or #10. I just don't remember which one (you can tell from a memo somewhere but I don't wanna look through them all).

And yeah, I do agree that these things are all pretty optional. The only one I'm pushing is #7, since it lets the Hero of Space get Frog Breeding immediately upon entry.

[AgentPaper]

I really don't think we want to go with the whole "each game must have an X of Space" deal. Even if we didn't also decide we need a Time player and an Heir and a Knight and on and on, it just limits the variety of the game, and for what? Accuracy to the comic? Hardly. We've only seen two sessions. Maybe if there's no Space player, then there's simply no volcano in the first place. Maybe some other player gets the role of "frog cloner" just as any of a variety of classes/titles could get the role of "past-ecto-ghost-clone-baby-self maker".

[demosthenes2k8]

Considering that Karkat made the ectobabies, and he's the Knight of Blood, there must not be a connection between title and ecto-duties. It must be the leader instead.

I think that the Hero of Space shouldn't be too hard to make mandatory, though. That way we don't have to randomly decide which player has to go frog breeding, especially if they all have other things to do from their own titles and domains.

[Legendary]

A point about variety. However, I feel that if we keep classes completely open regardless of Heroes of Time and Space (and you're right, of course. Sticking to the comic does seem to require a Hero of Time as well. I've noted this in other threads myself), and then factor in housing, guardian interests, prototyping, weaponry, sylladices, lands... I think there's still a lot of variety available! Every game will still be unique. And even if we do put in some restrictions, I don't think that kills everything. Frogs are still clearly a central part of the game in your book, so we're going to force the frog breeding quest into every game it seems. Honestly that's more concerning to me than forcing a couple of players into two particular domains! That there is something that will take much more effort to be fun.

And yeah, obviously some things aren't title-required, like ecto-babies, or hearing Exiles. That might be tied to the first person to enter the Medium, or maybe that's coincidence too and it's just whoever gets there first should do it!

[demosthenes2k8]

Well, frogs ARE an essential point. The whole frog quest is so that they can create the Genesis Frog, which will (apparently) become the world that they enter at the end.

There's not enough data to tell if that would be right, but it would make sense. The transportalizer only works once, and there's no way to leave until the meteors are launched. There we go, we have paradox babies. The only problem is if the team decides to ignore their own creation...and honestly, how it will actually work in this game? What incentive is there for that?

[perplexingTheorist]

Well, frogs ARE an essential point. The whole frog quest is so that they can create the Genesis Frog, which will (apparently) become the world that they enter at the end.

There's not enough data to tell if that would be right, but it would make sense. The transportalizer only works once, and there's no way to leave until the meteors are launched. There we go, we have paradox babies. The only problem is if the team decides to ignore their own creation...and honestly, how it will actually work in this game? What incentive is there for that?

Well to avoid that paradox we'd have to make it a mandatory quest now wouldn't we? Randomly assign it to a non-space, non-time character. Or assign it to the first character to enter the session.

[Interloper]

Yes, it does seem that the first player is the ectobiologist. That's easily caused by having a veil transportallizer take them to the lab when they step on it. Eventually they'll have to step on one, so it just takes them there.

Anyway:
1- Easy
2- Also easy
3- Can be handled with a randomly shifting texture on the shirt
4- Did Kanaya have this? that seemed to be a thing specific to Jade's Grandpa
5- Easy, and canonically necessary given their role is to create the new universe so making them Dersite wouldn't make sense. Both time players have been from Derse too so that might actually be a thing...
6- First guardians are kind of an obscure thing but it makes sense for them to be involved. They could be limited to preventing the space player from entering the frog temple early on or something. They might also possibly help with plot necessary events, it's really not clear how useful they'd be, except to keep the game going roughly as planned.
7- There doesn't seem to be any real significance to this so it can probably be ignored.

[Legendary]

4- Did Kanaya have this? that seemed to be a thing specific to Jade's Grandpa

She also had lots of interests and such-like, what with being a lumberjack AND a seamstress and having that garden and those books, etc. The Guardian's arrangements might be unique, though.

7- There doesn't seem to be any real significance to this so it can probably be ignored.

So then how do we handle the exorbitant Grist costs for Space equipment?