SBURBDEV Forum

[AgentPaper]

Could someone perhaps make a mockup of their preferred graphics system(s)? Especially those proposing that we do 3d, but also for the 2d/3d isometric, could you provide a few examples of what you're thinking the game would look like? Your own work, mind, not just a picture of another game that you think we should be trying to emulate.

[The Cool]

to make cartoony 3d models all you have to do is give them a border and not shade them

the not shading part is easy

for the borders, it's a bit more involved but its a step-by-step process and could actually be done procedurally
copy the object model
paste it elsewhere (this is the outline model)
extrude every face to make a model that is just a bit bigger
make the textures two sided
make the outside transparent (this makes it so that when another object is inside it, you see the object and not the outline model)
make the inside black (this makes it so that anywhere on the model there isnt something blocking the view from the inside, you see black)
place the object model inside the outline model

done

http://www.anim8or.com/tutorials/from_users/toon_notes/toon_rendering_hints.jpg
here is where i got this from and it should work with pretty much everything

[The Magus]

I would suggest 2D platformer, but with layers like LittleBigPlanet, so you wouldn't end up trapped under a staircase, etc.

[immortius]

The art style in Spiral Knights is quite nice - cartoony 3D without cell shading or outline shader.

I'm also inclined towards a platformer/sidescroller, with either 2D or 3D (like Trine) graphics. Potentially layered, although staircases and such can be handled in other ways. However it depends on the style of game we want - and to the degree we want to mimic the Homestuck style (which is often isometric).

For 2D characters would suggest the use of a 2D skeletal animation system - it reduces the amount of work in creating the sprite as you don't need to create a full animation sheet for each character.

[Interloper]

The question is also how it would LOOK like if you use 3D models. Keep in mind that most of you are pixel artists (i think so O.o), and with 3D models the game could very very dangerously fast look plain shitty. we are not a professional development team after all.

So, I´d say we should use 2D sprites, unless someone shows some nice, cartoonish, good-looking 3D models to prove me wrong.

don´t ask me why, but i had something like the character models from mabinogi in mind:

Maybe just a little more like MSPA, and a little less japanese.

Hey, so did I!
But they would be probably really hard to make...
Unless someone says otherwise?

Actually I figured the models would look more like psychonauts, only less discoloured.

[AgentPaper]

Again, I highly suggest anyone who can to make a mock-up of what they're imagining the game would actually look like. Just because another game pulls off some art style doesn't mean we're capable of doing it as well. It's all well and good if a theoretical team of 50 graphics artists could create the game using a special advanced graphics style, but if all we have is 5 people who really only work with 2d sprites, then we're much better off sticking to two dimensions, at least art-wise.

[demosthenes2k8]

I was on a really long car ride today, and came up with an interesting idea. What about two major map styles? The first view would be what the players see in the House, the Land, and Skaia - an isometric grid-style view where they walk along the grid. When they're at a location that they like (they have to have opened up a path to it from another square though) they can hit a button to "enter" it, which will turn it into a 2d platforming region. That region's "randomly" generated based on the XYZ coordinates of it, as well as where it is (Land, House, Skaia) and the Land aspects (if it's the Land). At different locations in the square, there will be doors or something similar that act as waypoints to unlock an adjacent square. Players can only move to squares on the grid that they've unlocked in this way.

Doing this would greatly simplify storing the layouts of everything - just save the types of each square on the grid, and whether they've been unlocked or not, and any square-specific data (who is in a village, etc), and the game will convert its position and type into the same "map" each time.

How would this affect multiple players? Simple. When more than one player is in the same place (for the rest of this post I'll assume Skaia, just for ease of typing), they'll see each others' locations ON THE GRID. If they go to the same square, and "enter", then they can meet up with the other player(s) in that square, because they'll have the same platform "map" and each other players' "map" position.

By the way, this would play VERY nicely with the "chessboard" theme of Skaia, and modular house creation, for obvious reasons. It would also do somewhat well with Lands, since it would still allow platforming, rapid movement around an area, and themed zones, without forcing the game to pregenerate a huge world, and ease travel across the Lands so that players don't have to grind just to make it back to a village.

What would this mean for visuals? Well, it would probably be best defined as "3d models on a pseudo-3d isometric grid, then the same 3d models but larger on 2d", so basically 2d gameplay.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I'll clarify if I have to. Also, I'm rubbish with art but I'll try to make a mockup...if possible.

[Legendary]

Can I just butt in and say that when it comes to generating the playable levels, the best approach would be something looking like [S] ACT 4 walkaround. We don't have to have the PC/NPC/Enemy graphics look like the ones in there, but the landscape was reasonably varied, easily constructed, etc.

[AgentPaper]

Well, there's no strict consensus, but I think our best option looks to be a 3d environment with 2d graphics. Unless someone can come up with a good reason not to use that, then I think we'll call it decided that this is how we'll be making the game.

[Interloper]

Why would we have a 3D environment with 2D graphics? what's the advantage of it over a 2D environment with 2D graphics? wouldn't it just be harder to make levels in?
I mean, if I get a chance to draw some stuff tomorrow I'll have some decent mock ups ready, but that seems like a really arbitrary setup to just decide upon. Can you give some examples of where that approach has worked? Aside from Doom? because Doom involved a LOT of sprites for each NPC.